More monsters may be using stealth than is desired

Swifty Willownall

It does put some encounters into an awkward position. Some monsters who wouldn't normally use it one would imagine, like ogres, are. I think I would rather have the monster stealth system than not though.

Emoteen

I'll also note an increase in monsters that seem to follow people to and just over area transitions - so more monsters camping transitions lately because they stealthed after someone then stopped chasing after they transitioned.

Zool

So the issue is this.

I have to put some kind of determinator on when they choose to use stealth.

So, currently, I just see if they have stealth above some value. This should, in theory, mean a DM meant to make this creature stealthy.

I did used to have a 50/50 chance on top of that, but I removed it, mostly to do some testing and see if it even worked.

I can add the 50/50 in, but that wont stop ogres and mummies using it.

I don't know why DMs gave them stealth points though.... it shuoldn't trigger from dex alone.

Not sure what to do, entirely ,because, if monsterr are built badly, then it makes it awfully hard ofr me to make automated systems to handle things based on sensible ideas.

Do I raise the skill requirement? but then maybe some bandits who should stealth, but aren;'t great at it, wont any more, but some mummies who, for some reason, are stealthy as hell will....

Zool

I'm not entirely sure there;'s a problem with badgers using stealth, why not?

Some elementsals may too, what about an air elemental? I could see that being stealthy, possibly even water.

Wyverns? I mean... they are pretty big... But they are animalistic and could stalk things?

Zombies and mummies... yeah probly not - however, I could see a zombie rogue being stealthy.

I can'tr -really- put direct racial type rules in here

Zool

Can you post up bug reports for specific creatures yopu think should not be stealthy? maybe they can be fixed on a case by case basis over time.

Zool

Oh, actually , I put the random chances back in, so those are still running.

Higher stealth score, higher chance of using it too progressively.

I've upped the numbers a bit to make sure it's not just super high dex scores doing stuff.

EDIT - completely negated teh ability for Dex based skjill ranks to influence it, in fact.

Hopwefulyl this cuts out most of the issue

Mr.Moloch

@Zool

From there, folks, please post specific creatures that shouldn't use stealth but are after Zool's posts here (if any are even). And I'll fix that, we need to keep improving a lot of our creatures, and its easy enough to fix these when problems occur -- and odds are if we have an ogre with stealth, its probably got something else wrong like 10 STR that also needs to be fixed.

jalafoon

@Mr-Moloch

I had a Wyvern attack me out of stealth.
It was one of those fungal wyverns from the Lamella.

Those definitely should NOT be attacking from stealth, as that could be a very lethal occurance

Zool

Adult wyvern has 7 hide and 11 move silent, this is enough to trigger potential stealthing.

Fungus infested has the same

In fact, everything with Wyvern in it's name has these skills

Zool

No wyverns will have stealth scores soon.

Couldn't do anything about "mummies, zombies, elementals, badgers" because the description is a tad vague. As was "ogres"

(I also think badgers should be able to stealth anyway)

Mr.Moloch

@Zool Wyverns should have stealth scores, they're stealthy hunters. THEY FLY.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wyvern.htm

Zool

@Mr-Moloch said in More monsters may be using stealth than is desired:

@Zool Wyverns should have stealth scores, they're stealthy hunters. THEY FLY.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/wyvern.htm

Makes sense if it's to represent that.

(Maybe in future we could look at something else too - as, perhaps you would see/hear them flying, though I guess that is indeed, spot/listen?)

Mr.Moloch

@Zool Canon the suckers have Skills: Hide +7, Listen +13, Move Silently +11, Spot +16

They're meant to be stealthy, predatory hunters who attack from cloud cover or cliff tops.

jalafoon

@Mr-Moloch

It wasn't fly though.
At least not the way I've seen it implemented.
The fly ability that the wyverns have and I've seen the dragon-men people use is that they jump into the air and as an action they land down next to you.

This was not that ability.
This was attacking out of stealth

Mr.Moloch

@jalafoon Yes, because they can't actually fly in a game without a z-axis. But the suckers have wings, they have stealth, that's how the game handles it.

jalafoon

I have Ettins attacking me from stealth in the Lamella

jalafoon

Also have Polar Bears attacking me from stealth in the Lamella

Zool

Removed the seemingly erroneous very low hide skill as per

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bearPolar.htm

Zool

@jalafoon The ones that will be, are scouts (Hunters), and sort of seem like they are intended to have stealth scores.

Mr.Moloch

Any of this still happening?