Remove ECL

greenlung

+1.

(lol)

Agree wholeheartedly. Haven't personally be affected by ECL, but always felt it was a needless drain. The application process is your screening opportunity, seems silly to get approved for a perk only to labour under a grind. Understand there's an argument to be made for increased power and balancing it, but if the player can't be trusted with it, don't approve them.

+1 to this, if you’re worried about someone abusing powerful perk don’t give it to them - which is why you have the app process.

Knockknock

@prof-misclick said in Remove ECL:

Apps for subrace were put back in since we had so many of them at one point it was city of subraces not city of Arabel.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the removal of ECL. The number of subraces in game at any one time is in the gift of the DMs, as is who gets to play them.

It's double jeopardy. Go through an application process and then also incur a heavy progress penalty.

App characters then have to spend a disproportionate amount of time grinding out quests to move through levels instead of role-playing, doing events or whatever else.

I just don't see what the benefit is. It's the DMs saying you can have this perk, but you have to wear handcuffs.

Is it meant as a deterrent? Less people apply for subraces because they don't want the faff of ECL? Just make it clear you're adjusting the approval criteria. I'm sure as a community we'd sooner see a slightly more stringent approval process if it meant once you were approved, you didn't have to grind to advance.

sharkinajar

@knockknock 100% how I feel about it. Definitely agree with knockknock here. It's a pointless suck of time.

Miss_Behaviour

Wouldn't be so bad if we had some kind of time-based xp tick like a lot of servers do. Some prefer to just have DMs grant small bits of xp (50-100xp) just as they hop between players seeing what kind of rp they're up to. It reduces the dependency on questing/combat so you don't feel bad about missing a day of questing in favour of a day of plotting, scheming or just gossiping.

I still agree with the rest of the arguments against ECL, but if DMs are adamant on keeping ECL, then at least give us a compromise to make it feel less of a quest grind.

Seter

I dont mind the ECL. Seems fine to me for the perks I am getting :)

A Former User

The downside of a very tough app process is that you may have to say „no“ to apps that you might otherwise feel are okay. That can be unpleasant, in particular if you would like to help people and also give them some advice on how they might improve their app to get it accepted.

Things like „we already have X“ would probably sound kind of lame as a reason to someone who has already spent a lot of time thinking about a concept, background, etc.. In the longer run, it might contribute to making the server more „elitist“ since writing applications (a bit like pretty much all proposals/applications in real life) will always require practice in „app writing“ - and knowing people (who give you feedback, encourage you to even try, etc.)

O-louth

@silversquirrel

Dms do not have issues saying no. And it is a legit reason to turn Down an application (even now), that there are too many aasimar IG at present. Perhaps Said dm can then help the player figure out a Way to make the concept work still. (Perhaps your aasimar paladin could be a knight errant of X instead.)

I would love to play a subrace. But the ECL breaks me every time. The issue is the Way, imo, that EXP breaks at level 8. Until level 8 it flows. At level 9 you only get DM and End quest EXP. So either make the exp at the level less steep (which would help both normal and ECL concepts), or remove it.

Echo

@silversquirrel said in Remove ECL:

Things like „we already have X“ would probably sound kind of lame as a reason to someone who has already spent a lot of time thinking about a concept, background, etc.. In the longer run, it might contribute to making the server more „elitist“ since writing applications (a bit like pretty much all proposals/applications in real life) will always require practice in „app writing“ - and knowing people (who give you feedback, encourage you to even try, etc.)

Not sure what this has to do with removing ECL.

If you dont want ECL, dont apply for a race that has them. Find a way to tell the same story with a "normal" race. If you want the perks that come with a special race, then you must accept that ECL is part of the package.

A Former User

Merely stating that if you need to make apps harder as a consequence of removing the ECL, then this may have other effects as well. From what I understand, the ECL appears to have worked fairly well with respect to reducing the number of applications that care a lot about the power of characters.

@echo

Echo

@silversquirrel gotcha!