Wood Elves- Little hard to build
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Ah, I thought the Default elf stats carried over the +2 Dex, -2 con. My mistake!
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the default stats do, IIRC.
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The stat line for a wood elf is
+2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, - 2 ChaMoon Elf (Default): (+2 dex, -2 con)
Wood Elf: (+2 str, -2 int, -2 cha)If you don't want to play an elf with a -2 to Int and Cha, then pick the default elf.
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give them half orc stats or delete the race since the stats make it very -very- difficult to build
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Just use the 3.5e wood elf stats tbh. (Or give them -1 ECL? Is that possible?)
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With how easy it is to get approved for planetouched and dragontouched, it really shouldn’t be this punishing to play a normal subrace, just my opinion. :)
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I also have to disagree with the “just don’t play x race” thing. Wood elves and moon elves rp very differently and have completely different outlooks/cultures. There are plenty of elf concepts where being a moon elf just wouldn’t make sense. You’re missing out on soooo much cool shit by limiting elves to strictly moon elves.
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@Foley I think the purpose is to be really good at beat stick while having to roleplay subpar personal skills and intellect. However it is a bit weird that the default stats still apply ON TOP of the wood elf base stats. I feel like if it was just +2 Str, -2 int, -2 cha like you said Foley, it'd be a lot more manageable. The -2 con makes it really hard to kind of synergize the build, especially because you're more often choosing between str and dex, not going for both of them.
I say we let elves have their half-orc like counterparts!
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Don't play a paranoid xenophobic elf if you don't like their stats.
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There'll be a brief discussion about this though. We DID remove the intelligence penalty from half orcs, after all.
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Most of the FR races are xenophobic as hell.
+1 Bowser's opinion.
With this many drawbacks it seems like playing a woodelf should gain you a -ECL instead of +ECL. Which is as far as I know, something we don't do. ATM they are stuck as a race with the suggestion they aren't good at anything.. which just isn't true.
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Keep in mind-
Elves get permanent detect mode.
Free Rapier/Longsword feats, as well as longbows regardless of class.
Immunity to Sleep, and +2 to all mind spells.Whereas half orcs get gimped with no racial bonus feats beyond +2 strength.
I think their penalties are worth it when you throw +2 strength, +2 dex on top of all of what they get above. If we remove their -2 con/int/charisma, they are loosing their +2 strength. All you get is a type of elf that is the same as moon elf except being xenophobic and weird.
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aka really just play a moon elf and say they are wood elf. Life moves on and it's an easy solution to your problem.
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Racial attributes giving small bonuses and penalties is fine, but they should never deter a concept from fruition because the latter is too harsh to work around. The -2 Con that elves get is a nightmare for any martial class or concept as is given how low the hp pools are on this server. The weapon proficiency feat isn't as useful as you'd think, either, given the martial classes already get them for free, and the classes who don't either rarely need to use weapons anyway (sorcerers, wizards), or have perfectly viable alternatives (bards, clerics, rogues).
If your answer to the question of "why are wood elves so bad at the moment?" is "just don't play one," then it suggests the subrace was not very well-designed or implemented from the get go. It's an asinine solution.
There's a reason future editions of DnD have moved away from having a large number of negative attributes (if any) on races, and it's precisely to prevent players who have a certain concept in mind (such as a wood elf sorcerer, or a half-orc wizard) be penalized for not picking a more mechanically optimal race.
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There is some discussion going on, expect a resolution soon to this.
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@SpiffyMeister this is a terrible suggestion, if that is the DMs thoughts just remove wood elves.
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+1 Foley, +1 Sparrow