Suggestions About Crafting

Wulfric · 6 Aug 2020, 05:42

I want to start a thread to write suggestions about crafting, mostly focused on alchemy.

These are QoL suggestions, mostly.

Stacking
By being an alchemist, there are several recipes that (if we break down the graph) require more than 15 ingredients to make just one. With bottles and vials counted, one potion's ingredients can fill in some cases more than half of a page in my inventory, or sometimes almost a full box. When placing it to the different stations, you have to take out the ingredients one by one into your inventory, then again one by one place them onto the station. This is nothing but consuming time, and we don't want that since crafting in itself is very time consuming, no need to keep it harder.

My suggestions about this are:
Make basic ingredients stackable, like

leaves, berries, roots, and kind of everything that is 0.0 weight
bottles, flasks, vials
gem dust
other crafting materials that you might need a lot of for crafting a product

Essences
In some cases, they are useful, like the essence of healing, curing, or power, because they are reused in a way that makes sense.
But in most cases, they are just an unnecessary extra step. You can only make one thing out of it: one specific potion. You have the ingredients that already took hours of your IG time in some cases. Then you make an essence, and you have a chance to fail it. Then you put ingredients again to make your potion and have a chance to fail. If you don't have infinite storage space (and you don't), then it takes a lot of time, just to go to the NPC, buy vials, then craft, then put the essences back, then go back to NPC, buy flasks, and if you are a low-str like me, you get encumbered most probably, it makes it even slower, and when you finally get to make the potion itself, you just simply get tired. (Although the stacking would help a lot with this issue.)
When it is not necessary, we could cut out the essence part, preventing to introduce a failing point for no actual reason.

Time spent at the table
Building on the previous issues, time is a problem for alchemy. You have to collect ingredients from many (sometimes really dangerous) places, and it could take several hours. When you finally have them, the crafting process itself should be quick at least.

please take out the delay from the alchemist table, it doesn't add to the feeling, just really annoys
if possible, when you close the alchemist table and the crafting menu shows up, if there is (exactly) one craftable product, highlight it at the top of the first page. It just saves time. If there are more, or none, then everything stays the same.
I think, when you add more ingredients than required and you fail the roll, you should not lose everything. The script should do the crafting one by one (there could be a delay for more than 5 items, yes) and it should say: "You successfully created n items from ingredients enough for k" The current behavior is just mean and punishes people for not wanting to spend even more time after hours of collecting ingredients.

That's it for today, I wanna sleep now :smiling_face_with_open_mouth: :sleeping_face:

Echo · 8 Jun 2020, 16:02

@Wulfric said in Suggestions About Crafting:

Make basic ingredients stackable

Those items are only available in stacks of 1 without a complete remake of every plant item & glass product (a few hundred of them). Even then, however, I'm not sure there are appearances for those items which would stack - I've looked at several of them and they're all stack of 1 only).

@Wulfric said in Suggestions About Crafting:

take out the delay from the alchemist table

I can reduce the duration on each station, but I likely will not make it 0 to represent time for the chemical reactions of alchemy (aka magic) to occur. That said, here are the current duration for each crafting station:

Current Duration:
------------
* Alchemy table - 7 seconds
* Armor crafting anvil - 4 seconds
* Brazier of Silver-Coating - 9 seconds
* Brewer's Keg - 8 seconds
* Brewer's Kettle - 8 seconds
* Brewer's Oven - 0 seconds
* Carpenter's Bench - 6 seconds
* Curing Tub - 6 seconds
* Enchanting Altar - 3 seconds
* Enchanting Pool - 3 seconds
* Enchanting Statue - 3 seconds
* Farmer's Mill - 0 seconds (this really should be 2-3)
* Farmer's Press - 0 seconds (this really should be 2-3)
* Gem Crusher - 3 seconds
* Gem Cutting Stone - 3 seconds
* Gem Detailing Table - 8 seconds
* Hide Rack - 5 seconds
* Holy Pool - 0 seconds (this really should be 2-3)
* Ingot Recycler - 9 seconds (it takes time for ores to melt!)
* Jeweler's Bench - 8 seconds (making jewelry takes precision = extra time)
* Mineral Bath - 0 seconds (this really should be 2-3)
* Public Forge - 7 seconds
* Scribing Ink Desk - 0 seconds (this really should be 2-3)
* Scribing Station  - 0 seconds (this really should be 5-6)
* Tailor's Table - 5 seconds
* Tinker's Device - 6 seconds
* Tinker's Furnace - 6 seconds
* Tinker's Toolbox - 6 seconds
* Weapon Crafting Anvil - 4 seconds

To reduce the time period would require editing all associated scripts (one script per station) and removing some of the animations (not hard to do just VERY time consuming).

@Wulfric said in Suggestions About Crafting:

highlight it at the top of the first page.

Likely not possible because it is called from a conversation list that has all the recipes in order that they are listed in the script. For example:

 sKeyToRecipe = CnrRecipeCreateRecipe(sMenuAlchemyPotions, "Potion of Barkskin", "NW_IT_MPOTION005", 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEmptyFlask", 2, 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEssBark", 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrBirchBark", 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeBiproduct(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrGlassVial", 1, 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeLevel(sKeyToRecipe, 4);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeXP(sKeyToRecipe, 40, 40);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeAbilityPercentages(sKeyToRecipe, 0, 0, 0, 40, 60, 0);
    sKeyToRecipe = CnrRecipeCreateRecipe(sMenuAlchemyPotions, "Potion of Bull's Strength", "NW_IT_MPOTION015", 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEmptyFlask", 2, 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEssPower", 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrHawthornFwr", 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeBiproduct(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrGlassVial", 1, 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeLevel(sKeyToRecipe, 4);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeXP(sKeyToRecipe, 40, 40);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeAbilityPercentages(sKeyToRecipe, 0, 0, 0, 40, 60, 0);
    sKeyToRecipe = CnrRecipeCreateRecipe(sMenuAlchemyPotions, "Potion of Cat's Grace", "NW_IT_MPOTION014", 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEmptyFlask", 2, 2);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrEssGrace", 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrCatnipLeaf", 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeBiproduct(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrGlassVial", 1, 1);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeLevel(sKeyToRecipe, 4);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeXP(sKeyToRecipe, 40, 40);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeAbilityPercentages(sKeyToRecipe, 0, 0, 0, 40, 60, 0);
    sKeyToRecipe = CnrRecipeCreateRecipe(sMenuAlchemyEssenses, "Essence of Restore", "cnrEssRestore", 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrGlassVial", 1, 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrChestnutFruit", 1);
    CnrRecipeAddComponent(sKeyToRecipe, "cnrGemDust004", 2);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeLevel(sKeyToRecipe, 5);
    CnrRecipeSetRecipeXP(sKeyToRecipe, 50, 50);

Because of the order they are in the script, they are listed Barkskin, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, and Restore, in that order, in the crafting menu.

@Wulfric said in Suggestions About Crafting:

when you add more ingredients than required and you fail the roll, you should not lose everything.

The script looks for the right number of the correct ingredients. For example:

Components available/required...
---------------------------

1 of 1   Glass Vial
1 of 1   Honey
1 of 1   Yellow Mushroom
1 of 1   Chicken Egg

With 1 of each of the required ingredients, and a successful roll, the PC would get 1 bloodroot poison. With a failed roll, the PC would lose the honey, mushroom, and egg, and retain the glass vial.

If however, the ingredients on the table were like this:

Components available/required...
---------------------------

2 of 1   Glass Vial
2 of 1   Honey
2 of 1   Yellow Mushroom
2 of 1   Chicken Egg

With 2 of each of the required ingredients, and a successful roll, the PC would get 2 bloodroot poison. With a failed roll, the PC would lose the honey, mushroom, and egg, and retain 2 glass vials.

If the ingredients were like this:

Components available/required...
---------------------------

2 of 1   Glass Vial
1 of 1   Honey
2 of 1   Yellow Mushroom
2 of 1   Chicken Egg

There is enough ingredients to make 1 bloodroot poison but not 2, therefore with a successful roll, the PC would get 1 bloodroot poison, and there would be a glass vial, mushroom, and egg left on the table. With a failed roll, the PC would lose the 1 honey, 1 mushroom, and 1 egg, but retain 2 glass vials, 1 mushroom, and 1 egg.

My only suggestion to crafters is that unless the recipe is "trivial" to make (or maybe 95% success - curse it if you roll a 1), dont put everything on the table at once.

Wulfric · 6 Aug 2020, 16:18

Thanks for the answer, @Echo !

Tell me how to remake a plant and I will do it! I'll take the time and try to make it better, since it really just stops me from crafting. I am willing to put in work to make it better. I'd be happy if you show me how to do one, and I'll do the rest whateverhundred.

Just it really annoys not just me, but other people as well, and this needs to be done. So I volunteer. Discord name in the signature.

As for the time, reduce would work also, but since you said the script shouldn't be altered and you cannot put everything onto the table, it goes back to time, when you don't want to risk rolling a 1 with 95% (yes, it happened to me as well :) ), and takes a lot of it. So... I'd recommend 2 seconds max.

Thanks in advance! :)

Echo · 8 Jun 2020, 16:46

We'll have to dig through all the base item types and appearance types to find ones that are stackable. If you know how to use the toolset, feel free to experiment until I have time to work on it.

Echo · 10 Jul 2020, 00:16

Crafting Station	Old Duration	New Duration
Alchemy table	7 seconds	5 seconds
Armor crafting anvil	4 seconds	No change
Brazier of Silver-Coating	9 seconds	6 seconds
Brewer's Keg	8 seconds	5 Seconds
Brewer's Kettle	8 seconds	5 seconds
Brewer's Oven	0 seconds	No Change
Carpenter's Bench	6 seconds	4 seconds
Curing Tub	6 seconds	4 seconds
Enchanting Altar	3 seconds	No change in time; changed animation type
Enchanting Pool	3 seconds	No change (yet)
Enchanting Statue	3 seconds	No change (yet)
Farmer's Mill	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Farmer's Press	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Gem Crusher	3 seconds	2 seconds
Gem Cutting Stone	3 seconds	No change
Gem Detailing Table	8 seconds	5 seconds
Hide Rack	5 seconds	3 seconds
Holy Pool	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Ingot Recycler	9 seconds	5 seconds
Jeweler's Bench	8 seconds	5 seconds
Mineral Bath	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Public Forge	7 seconds	5 seconds
Scribing Ink Desk	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Scribing Station	0 seconds	No change (yet)
Tailor's Table	5 seconds	3 seconds
Tinker's Device	6 seconds	4 seconds
Tinker's Furnace	6 seconds	5 seconds
Tinker's Toolbox	0 seconds	No change
Weapon Crafting Anvil	4 seconds	No change

Live with v6946

Wulfric · 10 Jul 2020, 00:24

Woo!
Thanks! :)

I just looked at this forum post, and grabbed the toolset to find a way to make alchemy crafting items easily stackable. And boom, echo replied to the topic. Either you read my mind, or I have some natural superpowers :fearful_face:

Echo · 10 Jul 2020, 00:59

Superpowers, duh.

Echo · 13 Jul 2020, 18:25

The following have been made stackable:

Grains: Barley, Corn, Oat, Rice, Rye, Wheat
Fruits: Raspberry, Juniper Berry, Grape, Eldberry, Cranberry, Cherry, Blueberry, Blackberry
Mushrooms: Yellow, White, Striped, Spotted, Red, Purple, Black,
Nuts: Almond, Chestnut, Hazelnut, Pecan, Walnut
Feathers: Owl, Falcon, Raven
Roots: Black Cohosh, Comfrey,Echinacea, Ginger, Ginseng, Terinav

Wulfric · 13 Jul 2020, 19:40

You're the best @Echo thanks a lot! :)
I'm gonna return soon and try it all out!

sharkinajar · 13 Jul 2020, 22:05

Having done a good bit of armor smithing so far, when comparing the stats of them compared to both jewelry and weaponcrafting, their stats are fairly underwhelming. Especially with some of the crazy good jewelry out there. In comparison, the top-end armors are incredibly niche, being only suitable for casters with their -sf% and don't give much else in the ways of benefits according to the crafting list. I'd suggest at the very least adding +AC to them.

Echo · 13 Jul 2020, 22:26

All stats are being reworked.

sharkinajar · 13 Jul 2020, 22:29

Perfect! :D