Ease on summoning theme restrictions
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@sparr0w said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
- The pool of summoning themes is already shallow as it is - from the 7 'usable by anyone' themes, 4 are vermin or vermin-adjacent, 2 are animals.
I find the summoming themes pretty boring if you are a non-app, or a DM doesn't come along and otherwise spawn the books for you. I have never seen any generate automatically except for vermin ones, which spawn everywhere.
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There's actually an NPC who wants to help sorcs be able to use more themes.
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@zool said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
There's actually an NPC who wants to help sorcs be able to use more themes.
Good to know!!
Arabel had some really nice themes actually and some real nice DM custom ones, so - yes - I am not saying mechanics are not there, just the vanilla themes might be a wee bit better.
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This has actually kinda been a plot point for my character. I will say, I’m kinda sad how limited the non-app themes are for sorcerers but at the same time since there is an NPC working on that I was just going to do stupid and crazy stuff to try to earn ALL THE SUMMONS!
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There are plenty of players who'd rather keep their distance from factions/NPCs is the thing.
Earning unique themes through an NPC = fun
Withholding what should be very basic themes = not fun -
I'd rolled up a sorcerer meant to be themed around water/Istishia (primordial water power). I'd /love/ to actually be able to use that link to play the character the way I intended them. Themed sorcs are my jam 100%
@sparr0w said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
There are plenty of players who'd rather keep their distance from factions/NPCs is the thing.
Earning unique themes through an NPC = fun
Withholding what should be very basic themes = not fun100%. I have a strong visceral reaction to how npcs and factions tend to subsume someone's character and put them firmly in the back seat on anything. Joining for specific faction perks is cool, but options and variety aren't bad for those who want to do their own thing.
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@arcanigans We designed the current factions to not have that issue based on feedback essentially saying what you posted here, That NPC's steal the show and are too important - they now mostly have their own goals which don't directly link, or influence the overall setting, leaving that to players, with faction NPC's giving some ideas and inspirations for things to do.
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Locking basic summons behind doing an NPC's plot that could take months doesn't seem very fun to a lot of people. Sorry.
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I would say more on the actual themes thing, but as said by Puffy, it's being discussed so I should probly not for now.
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@foley While still not saying too much on the summons as it's being discussed - I will say.
There were no plans to add the themes to Sorcerors as they were intentionally locked off by design.
An NPC was designed with this as a minor goal, and some of it was built. The design wasn't to entirely lock it to a faction either.If those themes are "basic" or not is subjective.
Objectively, currently, they aren't as they have requirements to obtain them.My personal opinion on if they are basic or not is irrelevant.
Thanks for the suggestions and feedback, it's being taken into account.
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So if it's not ready to discuss, understood.
Also they are basic, by DnD standards, elementals are a very common summon in almost all tabletop games ran.
Also it would be better for wizards to be locked out if anything, since wizards are known for being versatile, while sorcerers are the ones that are known for being very specialized in one thing, but locking out a class from those themes is a bit brutal.
Hopefully the discussions go well for sorcerers!
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@zool said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
If those themes are "basic" or not is subjective.
It is not really mechanical, it is flavour. Rats and insects are fine if you are playing some drunken alley wizard, and beasts suit Ranger.
It's more having a suite of summon themes that match a range of concepts. Most concepts dont really want to summon a dung beetle, thematically. Cant think of a better choice for a hobo gnome wizard, that I would be happy playing for three weeks before being murdered by the community for selling bootleg insect eggs.
My guess is summons are too powerful at the minute, so perhaps reducing the length of time they last or dole out banishment charms could alleviate these issues.
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@joekickass The summon themes do have different power levels based on their restrictions yes.
So, while Elementals may be "basic" from one perspective, they are more mechanically powerful than themes which have no requirements - by design.
In general, the more you have to "invest" (feats, specialisations, etc) the more powerful the themes are that become available.
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@zool said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
So, while Elementals may be "basic" from one perspective, they are more mechanically powerful than themes which have no requirements - by design.
In general, the more you have to "invest" (feats, specialisations, etc) the more powerful the themes are that become available.
Yes, I understand that. Though part of the fun was always collecting books and testing summons as a summoner. A good non-DM activity.
Would a regaent system be too much of a pain to implement?
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That’s fair and I’m in no way suggesting sorcerers get them freely, hence the suggestion to take sorcerer GSF into account. Dedicating half of their feats is a hefty but fair price, and also aligns with the team’s philosophy of greater investment = greater reward, no?
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@sparr0w said in Ease on summoning theme restrictions:
That’s fair and I’m in no way suggesting sorcerers get them freely, hence the suggestion to take sorcerer GSF into account. Dedicating half of their feats is a hefty but fair price, and also aligns with the team’s philosophy of greater investment = greater reward, no?
Definitely worth looking at and yes it does align with the greater investment = reward. Thanks for bringing this up.
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@broken-gunblade wut rock you get found under mister! WB bud
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i have learned that commenting on things in the wrong way is not very constructive, and a good way to be labeled a complainer, suggestions are good, why did i never think of that
i have learned to live within the parameters of the game as laid out by the over worked and largely unappreciated DMs, so what ever happens ..happens
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Personally I'd be fine with suitably thematic sorcerers getting suitably thematic summoning themes.
