[No]Dinoo/Afyola Elas/Tiefling Subrace Application

Voss_

This player comes from Arelith where good drow and good tieflings are allowed.

I wouldn't say that a tiefling paladin is impossible, but its something I'd rather see achieved at the end of a long and hard journey.

Puffy

Neit

SpiffyMeister

I am personally on the fence about this one- I am a 'no' on the app, but...

Do we want 'inherent' evil for player races?

Let me elaborate a bit.

If we do, we functionally confirm that freedom of choice and morality are predetermined from the outset and are not products of environment- a person can grow up in a perfect household, receive the best education and the best parentage, and still become 'evil'- for lack of a better word, by no fault of their own, but because ten generations ago a witch bonked a demon or something.
Lycans are a bit different in the sense they suffer from a magical curse and compulsion- this is a separate discussion, but I do think it overlaps somewhat by the existence of 'natural' lycans. I think we need to revisit how we want DnD morality and subraces to interact at some point (but not now, in this thread).

If we accept this argument, we create a black and white world with very little nuance and creativity- and while we want players to be representatives of their race to a degree (drow, duergar, tieflings are generally evil, etc...) we basically shut off the potential of a good tiefling or evil aasimar as a result without being 'wowed' by the prospect or story they wish to tell.

Certainly, a 'good aligned' tiefling would have a harder time than say a aasimar in convincing others they are good, but it can make for a compelling underdog story- and an evil aasimar can make for a compelling 'grand betrayal' story.

I say we let him play as a lawful good fighter if he cleans up the app a tad with clearer goals and permit him to remake as a paladin by having him go on a quest to earn the class if he is cool and badass enough.

SpiffyMeister

A bit more to elaborate...

I think 'inherentable evil' for pc races is a cheap narrative cop out, dm goes 'enemy evil' so the pcs can murderhobo them without feeling bad.
If we remove this and say it's often a product of superstition and environment that pushes them to evil, the result is the same, namely, evil tiefling, but they can aim to redeem/change and tell a story this way.

Prof. Misclick

Absolutely not. We’ve maintained no good tiefling and no evil aasimar.

Jay

@prof-misclick the races not being inherently evil is a big
and seperate discussion perhaps worth having down the road...

but as far as I understand right now we're sticking to the standard tiefling are non-good and aasimar are non-evil setting. So we agree it'll have to change?

Puffy

App is rejected, alignment on tiefling can be done in another thread

Echo

Prof. Misclick

Meh. The more I read the more I'm convinced this player is not a good fit for CoA.

Echo