[No]Dinoo/Afyola Elas/Tiefling Subrace Application

Echo

@jaysantoku Agreed. Tieflings and LG Pally dont mix no matter how hard they try. They are inherently evil. Best they might get is Neutral if they work hard at it.

Voss_

This player comes from Arelith where good drow and good tieflings are allowed.

I wouldn't say that a tiefling paladin is impossible, but its something I'd rather see achieved at the end of a long and hard journey.

Puffy

Neit

SpiffyMeister

I am personally on the fence about this one- I am a 'no' on the app, but...

Do we want 'inherent' evil for player races?

Let me elaborate a bit.

If we do, we functionally confirm that freedom of choice and morality are predetermined from the outset and are not products of environment- a person can grow up in a perfect household, receive the best education and the best parentage, and still become 'evil'- for lack of a better word, by no fault of their own, but because ten generations ago a witch bonked a demon or something.
Lycans are a bit different in the sense they suffer from a magical curse and compulsion- this is a separate discussion, but I do think it overlaps somewhat by the existence of 'natural' lycans. I think we need to revisit how we want DnD morality and subraces to interact at some point (but not now, in this thread).

If we accept this argument, we create a black and white world with very little nuance and creativity- and while we want players to be representatives of their race to a degree (drow, duergar, tieflings are generally evil, etc...) we basically shut off the potential of a good tiefling or evil aasimar as a result without being 'wowed' by the prospect or story they wish to tell.

Certainly, a 'good aligned' tiefling would have a harder time than say a aasimar in convincing others they are good, but it can make for a compelling underdog story- and an evil aasimar can make for a compelling 'grand betrayal' story.

I say we let him play as a lawful good fighter if he cleans up the app a tad with clearer goals and permit him to remake as a paladin by having him go on a quest to earn the class if he is cool and badass enough.

SpiffyMeister

A bit more to elaborate...

I think 'inherentable evil' for pc races is a cheap narrative cop out, dm goes 'enemy evil' so the pcs can murderhobo them without feeling bad.
If we remove this and say it's often a product of superstition and environment that pushes them to evil, the result is the same, namely, evil tiefling, but they can aim to redeem/change and tell a story this way.

Prof. Misclick

Absolutely not. We’ve maintained no good tiefling and no evil aasimar.

Jay

@prof-misclick the races not being inherently evil is a big
and seperate discussion perhaps worth having down the road...

but as far as I understand right now we're sticking to the standard tiefling are non-good and aasimar are non-evil setting. So we agree it'll have to change?

Puffy

App is rejected, alignment on tiefling can be done in another thread

Echo

Prof. Misclick

Meh. The more I read the more I'm convinced this player is not a good fit for CoA.

Echo