Lower exploration DC's , get rid of the CoA Skillpoint System/make the exploration spells more accessible
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I'm playing a character right now who's entire vibe is exploring and putting pieces of things together. You guys are adding new lore and rejazzing old areas which is awesome, but I fear most people won't get to see it unless they're an arcane caster.
Currently you can find some places within the module that have 18-21 DC balance/climb/squeeze type checks which can't be passed by anything but a lucky roll- and sometimes not even then- unless you put points into the horribly documented Skill System. Failure to pass some of these can drop you into areas with some gnarly monsters in anti-magic zones which still require another form of check for you to escape from... which you may or may not be able to do.
For a lot of players that may not pour over this stuff, you'd never even know it existed. Much less the obscure commands used to invoke it: .ss list and .ss add if you were curious.
The idea was cool, no doubt there was going to be a lot to it. But currently it's just kind of cruft that has one obvious use aside from passing those DC's.
Alternative to this, we have the exploration spells that are only usable by arcane casters. I get the concept behind a utility spell like that, but not everyone who wants to explore can cast them and everyone participating in an exploration has to pass those checks. No exceptions.
Potions for spider climb and I think toad leap exist in the npc vendors which is fine, but at 230 a pop, how realistic is it that you're going to be carrying around enough to do this stuff? The nodes where these checks get made aren't always obvious, nor are their DC's, and yet without the skill system investment, your option is expensive potions or be an arcane caster.
Looking at it from a casual player's perspective, if you have a certain amount of hours to log in, quest and do other stuff, that money is going to necessary combat potions. Even then, most people that need those combat potions often don't have the ones they need on a good day.
Please, for the love of all, don't delete the Skill System whole cloth without alternative methods to make those checks. There's a lot of cool lore that's out there and I'd love to show it to folks, and I'm sure they'd love to see it too.
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The new spells are pending potions as well, we have created crafted gear which gives bonuses in tailoring, and there is loot which gives the spells atm IG.
Grappling hook should solve a lot of the climb/jump issue(Saw it work the other day? Confirm please), and a bottle of grease the squeeze (Can be crafted, as an alternative to the spell)
These arent solutions, but its a help.
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A 'helping system' where a particularly skilled party member could get the rest of the party through would be swell. If you bring 10 people somewhere with a climb check that fails into a pit... chances are at least someone is going down, especially if it's 5-10 checks back to back.
Or have safety ropes that stop you from falling >>
A d20 climb can be done.
10 dc20 climb checks in a row is going to involve hours of fishing people out of a pit.
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This is also mainly my bad. I derailed the expedition by falling into the deepest pit of the server… about 3 times. I countered this by dumping all my .SS skills in to athletics so I can be a good support pally 😆. That was my mitigating factor for now. I’ll take a look at the grappling hook too. Would make me a better Judge Dread anyway to have a utility belt.
Some of those checks are reaaaaly hard for armored folks regardless. I actually can’t make the 00 DC small space checks in armor. I think I had like a -40 or something crazy like that to the check at one point
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Even with these changes exploration is largely not worth it. Very low rewards for very difficult encounters. There's not much point to the open world areas. The loot's objectively worse than questing. Learning the languages is largely fluff/plot. Dragging lower levelled players with you is just flat out dangerous and they're likely to get skill-walled by a jump or balance check and you'll lose them, so everyone on the trip needs to have a chiseled jawline.
I agree with your suggestions, just don't think it would be enough.
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Other things that will affect your checks I find is whether or not your overweigh and if you have your weapons drawn.
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Fluff/plot really gets my blood pumping to be honest, and it's why I used to explore. I was part of the players begging for more reasons to go out to the fringes of the server with other players.
Lets talk abit about what we can do to improve those areas.
Before we start talking loot, how would you expect a plot discovery, lore area, language area to be made more engaging?
Edit:
By blood pumping, I mean in a good way. -
@Lord_Acererak so part of it if. It's not worth exploring. you get zero tangible rewards. You are risking death for almost nothing and there are some DANGEROUS places out there and you might get some neat lore and that is it for risking death on some scary spawn.
Like I try to explore but it's often to dangerous to go anywhere really interesting, no one wants to go with me unless a DM is on.
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@CrazyZleric I see what you're saying, but you must see the problem with just putting a 'good item' in an outdoor area, right?
area loot has to reset, or the next guy gets nothing and there is only loot once a reset. But if it resets, and there is just a +1 sword sitting in a box, then that specific area gets over camped to the nine and it becomes a silly ooc game of where's waldo.
So its gotta be good, but hard to find, but also worth finding, yet not something everyone can just get. >_>
Which is why I was asking instead, what type of an interaction would become more engaging, make it feel "worth it" without just dropping the phrase "more loot."
I'm sure there is something we can do to make this worth while. Like a random area spawn with an event, or a hidden prestige-dump faction which could sell scary stuff, or super rare treasure maps which unlock a quest. Hidden difficult quests locked behind some knowledge. That sorta thing. Those kinds of suggestions. Stuff to make DMless fun.
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@Lord_Acererak I used to love going into the old swamps labyrinth. There was good loot, and it was dangerous enough you brought friends.. not to mention the mystery behind it all. I never did get through that first door. Another reason to explode was rare crafting ingredients only spawn on certain rare mobs in certain areas, so there was always a reason to go looking. Also, I love treasure maps. They're a really fun mechanic that I wish scaled with group size. Treasure maps really helped give people a reason to go outside the city for more than just questing.
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@Lord_Acererak well more like I've found a mob of monsters to get to dangerous place, said mod doesn't drop anything of value. XP markers are one time use for chracters. I am just saying if monsters dropped things more often even if it's bounty or PP items to help restock
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Those crazy climb and jump checks can be solved by a prestige item that you can get for not many PP last I was logged in, suprised I have not seen anyone else mention this.
Full disclaimer, I have not logged in for for quite a while, but I suspect the item I mentioned is still there.
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not sure if this is what you are talking about, but i have found various areas have their charms, the ones i am familiar with
hullack 1st part=good gold and good pp rewards for creatures, danger for me is moderate (if you are lax, you will perish)
hullack 2nd part=the gold and pp are still there, but not as good as the 1st area, and the danger is higher, the blood pumping, wake you up kind
outside tilverton= gold is decent, not as good as the hullack, but the pp is really good here, the danger can be at times less than hullack 1, and at times it matches hullack 2
inside Tilverton= nothing really that i have found, so i now avoid it
Bogs=gold and pp are not as good as other places, i find it hard to go in this area, it is challenging for my build (which is good, puts the fear of monster in me) i only pass through this area, choosing to get through it as quickly as possible
I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example
main: Rav (wiped)
(is not a Vampire. Proof?: does not sparkle)
No! Stop touching me! I am the night
"i have approximate knowledge of many thing"
retired: cilwa, eliane -
- Id make xp notes reset. Maybe once every week or 2 weeks. I was surprised it was once pr pc. But that alone would solve some.
- Secondly I’d love more puzzles like Deadwell or the wicked cave. But please place SOMETHING at the end. Even a note saying “contact lord ace for reward” or similar for dangerous puzzles.
- merchants or some such would be epic. We used to have caravan merchants at the end which sold decent loot. Could be a placable merchant if a real npc makes no sense.
- remember the old notebook quest? Something like that. Or the talos crypt in the Stormhorns. Rare, epic, dangerous quests but with a solid reward would be fun to see.
Character: Wouldnt you like to know?
Olouthitis: Character does awesome things for a few months, but inevitability hijacks an air ship and crashes it into an evil faction head quarters screaming battle cries. -
These are some good suggestions guys. I haven't read all of them yet, but I wanted to toss out some positive encouragement.
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On Marius the most demoralizing thing about that character was finally getting a group and fighting our way down to the deepest part of Deadwell, solving all the puzzles, braving Bodaks and powerful spawns, unavoidable traps, etc only to find…. Nothing.. there was nothing there. I know it’s spoilers but at this point it needs to be spoiled. The epic vampire and Bhaal cultist infested lair that some characters FDed to get to the bottom, that characters retired wondering what could be inside had nothing. No lore nodes, no chests, no secrets, no loot, not even an exploration XP marker.
If a DM hadn’t seen us on there and logged in to see us standing in an empty room just RPing something so it wasn’t a waste, it would have been all for naught. I’m super thankful for Spiffy for coming in and making it worthwhile for us, but it doesn’t make people want to explore when they know some of the most dangerous places don’t have anything to find.
It doesn’t need to be loot, I can be super secret lore, it can be a hook in a plot with actual information on how to move forward with it, but ever dangerous area needs a reason to go. It can’t just be a cool area. I would pay all my money and supplies for a GOOD, SOLID, Straightforward hint on a plot, but if an area is dangerous with nothing to offer, no one is going to go without a DM
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@Crusader-K said in Lower exploration DC's , get rid of the CoA Skillpoint System/make the exploration spells more accessible:
On Marius the most demoralizing thing about that character was finally getting a group and fighting our way down to the deepest part of Deadwell, solving all the puzzles, braving Bodaks and powerful spawns, unavoidable traps, etc only to find…. Nothing.. there was nothing there. I know it’s spoilers but at this point it needs to be spoiled. The epic vampire and Bhaal cultist infested lair that some characters FDed to get to the bottom, that characters retired wondering what could be inside had nothing. No lore nodes, no chests, no secrets, no loot, not even an exploration XP marker.
If a DM hadn’t seen us on there and logged in to see us standing in an empty room just RPing something so it wasn’t a waste, it would have been all for naught. I’m super thankful for Spiffy for coming in and making it worthwhile for us, but it doesn’t make people want to explore when they know some of the most dangerous places don’t have anything to find.
It doesn’t need to be loot, I can be super secret lore, it can be a hook in a plot with actual information on how to move forward with it, but ever dangerous area needs a reason to go. It can’t just be a cool area. I would pay all my money and supplies for a GOOD, SOLID, Straightforward hint on a plot, but if an area is dangerous with nothing to offer, no one is going to go without a DM
The Tethgard has a scripted ending. It’s epic. I seriously thought it was @Puffy the first time I saw it. I’d say Deadwell deserves something similar.
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@Crusader-K said in Lower exploration DC's , get rid of the CoA Skillpoint System/make the exploration spells more accessible:
no secrets
There are 10 nooks in the Deadwell Masoleum alone, of which 4 are in the final room. But, as of 8183, I have added exp markers and some non hidden chests
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@Darlene-Te-len I was talking about an amulet from the PP store that gives you several uses of either spider climb or the jump version.
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@CrazyZleric
Some of the more dangerous areas have hidden nooks that have interesting loot in them. I have found a few and was pleasantly surprised.Current PC: Alizee Walton
