Sorcerers

[MiladyMouse]

In the current settings, I would agree they do not get enough spell slot considering they get their spells 1 level behind all other classes.

For me, the only issues I really have with sorcerers is their epic squishiness. But that's me. >_>

@petey512 said in Sorcerers:

NULL SORCERER

What I like to call a counterspeller or a magebreaker.

For the kit, I would go with GSF Abju, bonus to spell craft and access to universal counters. (aka, make new hak spells).
Right now, the universal counter are lesser dispel, dispel and greater dispel. Which leaves some circle with no universal counters. I would see spells added via hak for those circles.
Level 1: Minor dispel (new)
Level 2: Lesser dispel (existing)
Level 3: Dispel Magic (existing)
Level 4: Either make dismissal or lesser spell breach a universal counter, or add a new one. Major Dispel?
Level 5: Greater Dispel (existing)
Level 6: Either make banishment or greater spell breach or add a new one. Mass Dispel?

As for kits/archetype/bloodlines, what I would like to see is:
Elemental sorcerers (Pyromancer?, Frostwalker?, Windrider?, Earthbender?)
Dragonblooded
Feydancer
Chaosborn

[HellzYeah]

I think that we should just let players flavor their choices however they want, and instead just give Sorcerers an option to focus on a specific school.

There's a couple ways to do this. Either give them free feats, or have their spells of the selected school automatically become affected by their school's metamagic selection.

As examples off the top of my head:

Evokers either get Empower Spell for free or have their spells automatically empowered (But you cannot empower twice.)
Conjurers get Extended Spells
Transmuters get Maximized or Extended spells
Necromancers get Empowered Spells
Diviners get... Something. Noone plays diviners anyway.
Abjurers get Extend Spell
Illusionists get Silent Spell

This will be powerful, but Sorcerers really do need the boost. More importantly it allows players to flavor their particular brand of sorcerer as they see fit without being constrained to pre-determined templates.

[Man in the Mist]

I dont think the metamagic feats are that powerful tbh. Some are straight up not useful.

[A Former User]

Extend and Empower are really good, the rest would find trouble being useful in our level ranges.

[JoeKickAss]

@petey512 said in Sorcerers:

I dont think the metamagic feats are that powerful tbh. Some are straight up not useful.

I'd take a 5th circle spell at 9 over nearly all metamagic feats. They need decent abilities, particularly around 8 or 9 or it will be too much of a slog.

[JoeKickAss]

@Miss_Behaviour said in Sorcerers:

To fix these, I think kits need to focus on granting sorcerers feats and a bonus spell at each odd level. i.e. 9th lvl sorc gains their first 5th circle spell related to their kit.
The trouble with that would be that they may not have the spellslot to use the spell at that level, so I'm not sure it's possible.
If DMs didn't want to give feats determined by kits, I like Crystal's idea with free metamagic feats, but they would have to be closer to a wizard's class feat progression at either 1/4 levels or 1/5 levels.

How easy is it to import a domain system like they have for clerics, where certain spells are given lower circle magic (e.g., endurance for suffering is 1st circle not 2nd, etc)

[Walrus Warwagon]

giving sorcerers something to make them more universal, in my opinion, is like missing the whole point of the class. Wizards is universal casters. Sorcerers is heavy specialized casters due to amount of their spells. I think that their kits should push their specialization further, making them really good at one specific task.

[DracoS]

@Walrus-Warwagon +1 on that thought. I like the idea of kits that build on a theme.

[JoeKickAss]

@Walrus-Warwagon said in Sorcerers:

giving sorcerers something to make them more universal, in my opinion, is like missing the whole point of the class. Wizards is universal casters. Sorcerers is heavy specialized casters due to amount of their spells. I think that their kits should push their specialization further, making them really good at one specific task.

Well yes, but it would still mean access to spells at lower circles I suspect

[lunatichigh]

I don't have a lot of input for sorcerers, but I'd give them significantly more spells per day than the wizard. I would also give them some stronger offensive cantrips that scale with level. Maybe they can get spell mastery with certain spells and cast them per day more often or even unlimited amounts of time?

[A Former User]

@Walrus-Warwagon said in Sorcerers:

giving sorcerers something to make them more universal, in my opinion, is like missing the whole point of the class. Wizards is universal casters. Sorcerers is heavy specialized casters due to amount of their spells. I think that their kits should push their specialization further, making them really good at one specific task.

This is what I would much rather see, instead of compensating sorcerers for being different than wizards.

[SadGruffman]

@Bowser this is the way.

[MiladyMouse]

@Bowser said in Sorcerers:

@Walrus-Warwagon said in Sorcerers:

giving sorcerers something to make them more universal, in my opinion, is like missing the whole point of the class. Wizards is universal casters. Sorcerers is heavy specialized casters due to amount of their spells. I think that their kits should push their specialization further, making them really good at one specific task.

This is what I would much rather see, instead of compensating sorcerers for being different than wizards.

Yup! This.

[Chips]

Sorcerers struggle with variability/adaptability, at low levels they don't have enough spells known to really cover their bases and adapt to situations.

Their point of struggle is that because they can't choose the best spell for that particular situation, their spells are less impactful than a wizards, the spell is still useful but not ideal. They make up for it by spamming the less efficient spell enough times to make up the difference.

A way to capitalize on the sorcerers strengths and uniqueness would be multi spell synergy. The ability to combine a multitude of spells together in order to create a special effect, this is something wizards can't afford to do because every single spell they cast needs to count for as much as it can. They can't afford to combine too many things together in order to get a desired result.

Lumomancer and Shadow adept accomplished this back in v4 (especially Lumomancer), what was most fun about the class wasn't how broken the two spells that broke the kit was, but rather how much synergy its spells had with each-other, made the class feel different.

---

As for suggestions for kits?
I suggest we look into giving each sorcerer bloodline a power that functions similar to Fallow Staves, an infinitely spammable item with a minor effect that scales a little bit with caster level, who's effect varies based on what you're using it on (use on self to get a buff with a cooldown, use on floor to get an aoe effect, use on person to have a targeted effect, use on door or object to have a utility effect)
This capitalizes on what sorcerers are all about, weak but adaptable effect that makes up the difference in potency with quantity or with the fact that you can combo multiple things together in order to get a better result.

[Prof. Misclick]

Giving this a bump for any last minute suggestions.

[Man in the Mist]

Deep One Bloodline

There are those with strange abilities who dream of untold spires beneath the waves...

Cold resistance 5/

Sea creature summoning theme

All ice spells deal an additional die of dmg.

Alien Mind: +2 vs mind effecting

[Puffy]

Suggestions and feedback reviewed, with changes implemented.